Megan Hall: Welcome to Possibly, where we take on huge problems like the future of our planet and break them down into small questions with unexpected answers. I’m Megan Hall.
On this show we’re always thinking about the most effective way to talk about climate change. What words resonate with people? And what makes people tune us out?
So this week we turned to an expert in this exact thing.
John Marshall: I’m John Marshall, I’m the founder and CEO of Potential Energy. We think of ourselves as the marketing firm for planet earth.
Megan Hall: John, who’s based in our home state of Rhode Island, spent most of his career doing marketing for big brands – airlines, soda companies, you name it.
John Marshall: One day my 17-year-old accosted me and told me that I had to stop selling shampoo and soap and do something useful with my life. So we started this marketing firm whose purpose is to educate citizens on climate change using all the techniques you would use to sell someone an Oreo cookie.
Megan Hall: That means they started doing market research on different ways to talk about climate change.
John Marshall: Does this word versus that word, if you say climate versus not climate, if you use climate as an adjective or a noun. And so all of those details that, you know, one would use if one was in the marketing world, we’re using for climate change.
Megan Hall: So I wanted to ask John for some tips, for us here at Possibly, and for you to use at home.
Megan Hall: So I was hoping I could just kind of run by you some phrases and you can tell me are they useful to use and if not, what should we say instead?
John Marshall: Let’s do it.
Megan Hall: Okay. So here’s a phrase that I come across a lot and I don’t like to use it because I feel like no one knows what it means: “Carbon footprint.”
John Marshall: You are right. No one knows what it means. It also is kind of a funny thing where your individual carbon footprint is probably not gonna make that much of a difference in the total scheme of things. And so we don’t use it. There’s a whole set of those terms, like no one wakes up in the morning and says, “what a great day for decarbonization.” There’s so many technical terms in the policy sphere that have leaked into climate communications. We try to get rid of all of that stuff.
Megan Hall: John says that even the phrase “carbon emissions,” or “CO2 emissions” isn’t great to use. It’s not clear enough what it means, or how harmful it is to the planet.
John Marshall: We do like the word “pollution.” Pollution works really well
Megan Hall: John’s research shows that talking about “carbon pollution,” or just “pollution,” is more effective. Because pollution is something everyone knows and dislikes.
Megan Hall: Okay, so now what about the term “net zero?” What do, what do people think of that?
John Marshall: Well, no one wants to go to zero. Like humans want good stuff. We want abundance. We want more. We’ve systematically found that abundance framing beats sacrifice framing. And so anything with “mandate,” “ban,” “zero,” you know, all those kinds of things always lose.
Megan Hall: I also asked John to weigh in on one of the biggest debates in how we talk about climate change. Should we focus on fear or hope?
John Marshall: I’m so glad you asked this. This one drives me bonkers. So we have the data on this. We’ve actually come to a conclusion that it’s the wrong debate. We’ve actually found that the most motivating thing is love. And so the line that we use on climate change is we need to protect what we love.
Now, love happens to have fear and hope inside it, right? Worry is important. It motivates. It activates you. You worry about your kid. You worry about their future. That’s a normal human response to something. It’s okay to do that. It’s also nice to talk about how the solutions, you know, create more optimism and hope, but it is a false choice.
If we’ve learned one thing, it’s that it’s okay to tell the truth, and the truth is not great, but it’s very motivating.
Megan Hall: So if you’re ever talking to someone, a friend or a family member, about why climate change matters, try these tips:
Use phrases everyone knows like pollution, instead of technical terms
Don’t talk in partisan terms. Just saying “it’s not political” instantly lowers people’s defensiveness.
And focus on how climate change will affect what people love.
That’s it for today. You can find more information, or ask a question about the way your choices affect our planet, at askpossibly.org. You can also subscribe to Possibly wherever you get your podcasts or follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, or Bluesky at “askpossibly”
Today’s episode was produced by Nat Hardy.
Possibly is a co-production of Brown University’s Institute for Environment and Society, Brown’s Climate Solutions Initiative, and Ocean State Media.
